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Pangaea
10-25-2011, 12:09 PM
Hi folks

I have a chat app.. its made in php or something, and it uses css (no idea what css is) .. anyway.. the chat page is resizing to window, and its messy, i want to put it into a table, but wheni put it into a table the chat app didnt work.

So i selected all the chat app and went into CSS properties.. and set it up with absolute size values..etc hoping to contain it in a neat box
but when i make the the changes in the CSS properties for the chat app, when i exit the dialog.. the "save" in dreamwaver file menu is ghosted out.. even tho according to the "design/layout" the changes have been made.

So i saved as (to brute force a save).. then tested the page.. but the changes i made in the CSS properties have not been made.

So I closed down dreamweaver and opened it again.. then opened the .php in question.. in the design/layout view the changes i made previously are not there.. so i go into CSS properties again .. change things.. apply, exit the properties dialog, see the change in the design/layout view.. but still the "save" is ghosted out

Is almost like dreamwaver isnt noticing that ive made changes?

Im sorry if im asking silly questions, its just my latest project im trying to push myself to do things i otherwise woulnt have tried before, so CSS and all that stuff is a mystery to me.. the only thing I know about CSS is that it stands for cascade style sheet, whatever the heck that is ;)

anyway.. any change i make dreamweaver dosent seem to see or even notice that im changing things

any ideas anyone?

regards
pan

Corrosive
10-25-2011, 12:34 PM
You really, really, really, really need to get your head around CSS. Once you have you will be happy answering these questions for yourself.

Pangaea
10-25-2011, 05:55 PM
ok ive been at this all day
i have no idea what im doing, im just guessing my way around.. no idea whatsoever what im doing at all.

i basicly want this:
http://fractalscapes.net/545.jpg
the chat part to be in a neat box.. ive been trying all sorts of things since early this morning, nothing i do is working, like as i said im just pressing buttons adding in code ive no idea what dose, editing code ive no idea what dose.. im just working totally blind here, i cant work this out on my own

I need something like this:
http://www.fractalscapes.net/btb/chat.html

I know that is a different chat thing, but its an example of what i want the chat window to be like.. locked into an absolute sized table, that auto centres on the page.. then i can work a design around it.

believe me its not like im trying. ive been at this all day non stop.. there comes a point where help is needed..

with regards to getting my head around CSS, i know i use bad habbits, but i dont have the head for technical things, especially programming and coding.. much as ide love to try learn i dont have 2+ odd years spare to go back to college to learn... I was thinking of doing a night course in webdesign, but they are expensive.. all i have is what I know.. I know im crap at it, but i just cant "pick up" css just like that., hell as i said i dont even know what it is. ;)

anyway.. im out of ideas, much as ive tried

Corrosive
10-26-2011, 07:45 AM
Suggest you try; http://www.livezilla.net/home/en/ instead. We use it on our site and the chat box is a neat little pop-up.

On the CSS thing (and please don't take this the wrong way) what are you doing building websites at all? Seems like something that is causing you massive frustration, you say your brain isn't wired the right way to do it and you don't have time or money to learn properly. Sounds like a no-brainer to leave it to someone who can... doesn't it??

Pangaea
10-26-2011, 10:00 AM
Thanks so much for the link, However I did spend a few days looking around for a suitable chat app (one that dosent require registration to a 3rd party and one that will not connect to an external 3rd party server) . I need something that is wholly internal to the website. I didnt want java so according to what I read php chat app seemed to be the ideal way.

Regarding me and website, Im not really sure what way to take what you said to be honest :)
Perhaps I didnt cover my history, I have been making basic website for a while now, its not my "day job".. I am first and foremost a graphic designer, so all my life that is what ive concentrated on. In fact a number of site and/or web content ive developed has been nominated for contests before.. I also won a forum design award, So as you can see, its not that i cant make a nice looking website, its that my speciality is not in the back-end tech stuff.. However all my life I have HAD to learn certain things that I usually dont feign from.
As i mentioned usually when i make website i dont usually push myself to put content such as chat rooms..etc this is all new to me.

In short I can , and have made really nice sites , that clients have been thrilled with.. Just because I dont know the tech an programming I dont think that qualifies this statement "what am i doing making websites"
I am one person, not a department in a web design house.

You are only looking at this issue on this site ive run into. Like sure as i said i hold my hands up and admit Im crap at tech, but I try, I try.. and 99% of the time I muddle through the issues with success with or without help.

I know my own abliites, so am comfertable and content with that, Tho im sort of also half thinking the gist of what you said might come accross as quite discouraging and disheartening, bordering on insulting.

I realise many or all of you on this forum and other tech forums know your stuff, however why be so precious about your own abilities and look down at others clearly trying hard, and putting in the effort.

In a nutshell, Im not as bad as you might think I am at creating web content, and I am sorry that you are hooking on this one example to conclude that I should give the whole thing up.
Its rare you get a person whos skilled at both visuals and tech, there is simply not enough hours in the day to learn both. Im many many years out of school and not in a position to "go back" to college to learn a whole disaplin such as programming or scripting or whatever. That said I am prepared to at some stage do a part time course or something.. but right now, I dont have those tools available to me, so I seek help.

Im sorry If i have wasted your time and the time of this forum.
Thanks anyway for the initial interest in helping me.. Im sure ill find some way around the current problem ( i always do in the end)

best of luck to you with your own projects

regards
pan.

Corrosive
10-26-2011, 10:09 AM
Thanks so much for the link, However I did spend a few days looking around for a suitable chat app (one that dosent require registration to a 3rd party and one that will not connect to an external 3rd party server) . I need something that is wholly internal to the website. I didnt want java so according to what I read php chat app seemed to be the ideal way.



Livezilla is ideal. It is internal to your website. It has it's own database on the server where your site is hosted, it has it's own desktop application that alerts you to new chats etc. It connects directly to your website through FTP. I'd recommend a SSL certificate to go with it but it is everything you have asked for.

Corrosive
10-26-2011, 10:26 AM
On the other bits I don't mean to be insulting and am sorry if it came across that way.

I just happen to think that web standards are as important a part of the end product as the visual side of things.

Pangaea
10-26-2011, 11:21 AM
Thanks man.. I will most certainly re-look at livezilla.. I got the impression when looking at it myself that anyone using it would have to register with them and use their own server, so I will defiantly have a look at this.

Re: the other stuff..
man im kinda sorry too, i shouldn't have snapped like that, I relies although Im not getting any value out of what your are saying, from your point of view your are helping and giving me sound advice.
And I do take on board what your are saying and thoroughly agree with you.
Gone are the days of one person sitting in their bedroom creating whole sites with fully dynamic content, and this and that. What scares me are these standards you speak of, My head is still very much "back in the day" when there wasn't much behind a website other then plain html and a few other things.
Theses days there is so much to a website and clients demand so much more its often overwhelming for one person to tackle every aspect of a site.

I think there is still good money in making basic to intermediate sites for local small business and other services, but as i said, the more work I get the more they demand like shopping carts, dynamic content.. etc etc.. where as only a few years ago it was "stick my contact details and a gallery page on there for me" ;)

All your points are valid, and again im sorry for snapping.

I will see about this chatzilla thing today, then hopefully move on with the project.

Thanks again for your time and patience

Regards
pan

Corrosive
10-26-2011, 11:49 AM
I think there is still good money in making basic to intermediate sites for local small business and other services, but as i said, the more work I get the more they demand like shopping carts, dynamic content.. etc etc.. where as only a few years ago it was "stick my contact details and a gallery page on there for me"

I find that even the small guys want some pretty sophisticated stuff nowadays. I have had the opposite challenge to you in that I am comfortable with code but find it hard to design stuff as good as some of the graphics guys out there.

If you stick around we can help you at least get good with CSS and semantic mark up.

gentleone
10-26-2011, 12:57 PM
Let me add something to the conversation as well ;)

You're right that it's almost impossible to know all the scripting languages. I say almost, because there are developers out there that do know really a lot. You can either do 2 things. One.. you're going to learn all the stuff as well and don't come outside anymore, or two... you're going to collaborate (outsource) with other freelance developers who are experienced with the scripting you need for your projects. The latter is what most web developers do.

HTML & CSS compared to real scripting languages such as JavaScript or Objective C is peanuts. Although HTML5 and CSS3 are taking it a huge step further, but if you're already comfortable with the basics then it's much easier to grasp these new technologies. HTML & CSS is where I'm personally comfortable in and the real complicated stuff I outsource.

Pangaea
10-26-2011, 07:20 PM
After thinking about this for a while ive decided to book myself in for a set of 12 classes starting in February pertaining to an introduction to web authoring.
I know 12 classes isnt going to cover much, but it will give me a good indication if I think its worth perusing further.


Yup.. i agree, there are probably lots of great coders out there, and lots of great artists.. often sitting in their own camps.. I think real magic is made when heads and skills get together.

regards

livezilla .. 70euro hehe... plus you need to register and setup and account and all that.. err. not exactly what i had in mind... the php one is more or less perfect.. simple chat window where ppl can have a discussion.. dosent cost money, dosent require accounts to 3rd party website..etc
but eh! thanks for the suggestion of course :)

johnMoss
10-26-2011, 07:59 PM
P, gotta do a plug for Jim on this site. http://dwcourse.com (http://dwcourse.com/) As you are a designer, it's helpful to have access to coding updates as you are engaging in a new endeavor on the cuspice of big changes in HTML. This assuming of course you have access to dreamweaver as an html editor. As a part of a team environment someone's bound to have a license you can mooch for a while...

Pangaea
10-27-2011, 07:48 AM
Fantastic plug tho.. this looks right up my street. Its uncanny, that guy in the endorsement video on the home page.. sounds like me to a tee.

The course developer also mentions he focuses on "meat & potatoes" which its exactly what I needed.
The breakdown of what is covered sounds interesting and very valuable too.

if this saves my a 30mile drive (& 30 mile back) to that course I mentioned earlier .. plus I can do this with my own pace... it really dose sound like an ideal gateway for me to work with more aspects of web design and content.

anyway wonderful suggestion thanks so much

I think december might be a slightly awkward time for me to enrol, but if I dont enrol then I will make sure im in the next batch.

Corrosive
10-27-2011, 10:48 AM
livezilla .. 70euro hehe... plus you need to register and setup and account and all that.. err. not exactly what i had in mind... the php one is more or less perfect.. simple chat window where ppl can have a discussion.. dosent cost money, dosent require accounts to 3rd party website..etc
but eh! thanks for the suggestion of course :)

Sorry about that. They must have started charging and asking for details. We have it totally free on our site and I know others who do as well. Many apologies for the red herring I assumed it was still a freebie.

Pangaea
10-27-2011, 02:30 PM
heh, no bother.. i guess everones looking to make a buck these days.. cant blame them