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View Full Version : Dreamweaver 4 vs. CS4 or CS5


RuthlessRoth
04-13-2010, 05:16 PM
I have been using Dreamweaver 4. When copying text from one cell in a table
to another cell the HTML gets changed. Often if I copy from one cell to several other cells the HTML could be different each time.

In the new versions CS4 or CS5 does this still happen?
Considering whether an upgrade would help.

thanks
andy

Corrosive
04-13-2010, 05:31 PM
Hi Andy and welcome to the forum.

I think the thing you need to appreciate is that CS4 and CS5 are much more of a developers tool and encourage you to move away from table based design. If you are prepared to learn a little code, in particular CSS, and how it applies to your text then you'll have a lot more control over what is happening.

CS4 or 5 won't solve your problem but they'll encourage you to build better websites and that can't be a bad thing.

RuthlessRoth
04-13-2010, 05:36 PM
Hi,
If table based design is not being used now what is being used in it's place?

Corrosive
04-13-2010, 05:44 PM
For static sites developers will use CSS and div tags; http://www.corrosiveonline.co.uk/tutorials_css_explained.php

zebulonzed
04-14-2010, 09:53 AM
As long as there are people who want to develop their own websites, there will be simple table based html and css/html blends and oodles of WYSIWYG editors and browsers will continue to read that code. And eventually, WYSIWYG CSS editors that work as smoothly as Dreamweaver currently handles a blend of both will emerge. Seems to me the CSS dominance is more appropriate for professional web programmers and developers. The rest of us who are not coders and don't have a desire to take on whole new languages for getting basically the same results (give or take a few conveniences or effects) represent a massive number of internet users and content providers. I realize that's blasphemy, but I have a heretical streak in me ;-)

I still love the forum and all the brilliant coder brains out there so willing to share and assist hapless moe rons like me :roll:

Corrosive
04-14-2010, 05:18 PM
You are only fooling yourself dude. Why wouldn't you want to be able to update your entire site from one file? Tables seem easier to start with but a well built CSS site is sooooo much easier to master and maintain.

DWcourse
04-14-2010, 05:47 PM
In answer to your original question, if you're designing with tables you aren't going to be happy with CS4 or CS5. If that's what you're after then it's time to find one of those "oodles of WYSIWYG editors" that support tables for layout.

While it's probably correct to assume that browsers will continue to support table-based layouts, it's not a sure thing. I've been around long enough to know that it took a while for tables to be well supported across all browsers and, even now, it's not without problems. So don't be too surprised if one day browsers drop support for multiple levels of table nesting or only support tables for their intended use, tabular data.

And, more to the current point, you can't expect Adobe and other developers to support ancient versions of their software forever. Maybe there's a niche for a WYSIWYG layout editor using tables. But if the market is people who are currently using 10 year old software, I can't believe it will be much of a money maker.

domedia
04-14-2010, 06:08 PM
As long as there are people who want to develop their own websites, there will be simple table based html and css/html blends and oodles of WYSIWYG editors and browsers will continue to read that code. Only time will show I guess. Keep in mind thought that the new front end developer 'graduates' have never done a table based design, and that the web standards movement has gained great momentum the last couple of years.

zebulonzed
04-15-2010, 12:25 AM
Domedia

Oh, I don't disagree at all. And I use the power and convenience of CSS as much as I can, I'm just saying the bulk of the internet is going to remain content provided by average joe's with html editors; so much of the net content would become utterly obsolete if browsers stopped recognizing basic html. I really don't think that will ever happen. As an artist and right-brained person, I find coding and working with code "interesting" but by no means pleasurable. I much prefer a visual interface. I think there will always be a catering to the intuitive and creative thinker for web content side by side with the latest and greatest code evolutions. It's just not reasonable or rational for everyone to be expected to become a code warrior just to produce web content. If it ever becomes that unfriendly, the net will be the haunt of egg heads and hackers and coders alone, and I don't see that coming. (egg head being a compliment, btw, I envy left-brainers!) :D I ordered the CS4 demo discs and found myself absolutely overwhelmed by it. Its advantages were more than evident, but its processes were anti-intuitive to the max. Using DreamWeaver to me is like flying a kite. Using CS4 was like trying to operate the Space Shuttle with one eye poked out and my left arm glued to my forehead holding a live trout. ;)

domedia
04-15-2010, 03:24 AM
I'm sure the web code layer will 'disappear' in the end when we have software that is good enough (Dreamweaver maybe?). Hopefully we've all been promoted away from being code monkeys at that time :shock:
It's going to take some time though, and I think the only way it's going to happen is if the software starts relying on standards.

But I don't think there's any reason not to use the web languages the way they are intended to be used, even though you're not a 'code warrior'. *Noone* I have taken through the transition from table based design to a CSS based design have looked back. There's tremendous advantages in speed of development, the only thing you have to do is swallow the bitter pill of realizing that designing sites with tables and blank gif's was a hack, a sidetrack that ended about 5 years ago. :)

I'm not really a handyman, but I would never dream of using that as an excuse to use a toaster to drive a nail in the wall. Not sure if that comparison is fair or not. And it's said with no disrespect, I'm just trying to explain my point.

Large interface changes are never joyful experience, but you've missed version 6, 7, 8, CS3 and CS4..

You might be better off just using DW4, but unless you make a move now and learn some new stuff you might be stuck in that version.

To your original question; whatever tags are used on the font is going to be copied over if you do it in design view.

edbr
04-15-2010, 03:52 AM
just to add 2 cents, it is very possible if not now, then later seo will be more effective with the clearer code as per css than tables , some suggest it already has advantages.
a better handy man analogy perhaos might be that you can still use a wooden plane to make a smooth or plug in the electric planner both get the job done but there are advantages to using current methods.
is using css so difficult when approach from the beginning? i dont think so. forgetting tables and taking a new approach might be, but really not so difficult. im not the sharpest chisel in the tool shed but i did it so i know that it is not the issue

zebulonzed
04-15-2010, 08:45 PM
I'm sure you guys are dead-on correct, but I just can't design from blank white with a sea of code. It just doesn't work for me. I have to be able to see it and physically move it around and explore. I find a great disconnect between the design level and code level outside of WYSIWYG interfacing that tends to frustrate intuitive creativity. For others, I assume people gifted with a solid right-left brain exchange, it works. Me right brain... fire bad... bread good :mrgreen:

And pardon moi, sincerely, I didn't mean to divert this thread in another direction! ack! :roll:

DWcourse
04-15-2010, 09:00 PM
I'm sure you guys are dead-on correct, but I just can't design from blank white with a sea of code. It just doesn't work for me. I have to be able to see it and physically move it around and explore. I find a great disconnect between the design level and code level outside of WYSIWYG interfacing that tends to frustrate intuitive creativity. For others, I assume people gifted with a solid right-left brain exchange, it works. Me right brain... fire bad... bread good :mrgreen:

But that's a whole 'nother ballgame. Table-based layouts don't allow that any more than CSS-based ones.

d a v e
04-15-2010, 09:13 PM
sketch outline with a pen and paper
then design in a graphics app,
then code it all in DW or wherever and use images exported from graphics package

zebulonzed
04-16-2010, 12:36 AM
Well, that's what I love about DWR, I can see the code and the design window simultaneously and I can shove things around and see what I'm doing and if the design view won't do something, I code it, and if the code view is too overwhelming it usually is something I can do in the design view. Love that. I just save multiple versions until I get what I like, never have to resort to sketching anything out in the 'meat-realm' :roll: :lol:

domedia
04-16-2010, 04:31 PM
DWCourse has a great point though; using design view or not has nothing to do with using table based designs.