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View Full Version : Difference between Dreamweaver 8 and Adobe CS3 Dreamweaver?


sbaker
06-24-2009, 08:07 PM
Is there any huge difference between Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 and Adobe CS3 Dreamweaver version? Does the Adobe CS3 interface better with Adobe Photoshop CS3?

DWcourse
06-24-2009, 08:13 PM
With regards to CSS, CS3 handles it much better and there is better integration with Photoshop. But, IMHO, CS4 is an even bigger improvement. Check out this article for the changes: Comparing Dreamweaver 8, CS3 and CS4
(http://dwcourse.com/dreamweaver/upgrading-dreamweaver8-cs.php)

sbaker
06-24-2009, 08:52 PM
Thanks JC... I haven't bought either one.. own CS3 Photoshop... and can purchase CS3 DW for a lot less than CS4...

Corrosive
06-24-2009, 09:02 PM
Thanks JC... I haven't bought either one.. own CS3 Photoshop... and can purchase CS3 DW for a lot less than CS4...

This is just my opinion but you'll end up hand-coding eventually anyway If you are serious about web design. I use MX2004 just as a beefed up version of notepad with ftp and code hints and it is fine...and cheap :wink:

DWcourse
06-24-2009, 09:21 PM
What I like about the DW layouts is that the CSS files are well commented and it's a good way to start to understand how CSS layouts work. It wasn't really intuitive to me at first.

I was able to work into CSS gradually (made a lot of pages I'd cringe about today). If I was new at it, I'd take all the help I could get

Corrosive
06-24-2009, 09:44 PM
What I like about the DW layouts is that the CSS files are well commented and it's a good way to start to understand how CSS layouts work. It wasn't really intuitive to me at first.

I was able to work into CSS gradually (made a lot of pages I'd cringe about today). If I was new at it, I'd take all the help I could get

I can totally understand and I started in design view (insert > table) like everyone I think. All I can see now is the amount of time I wasted doing it wrong as I looked for a quick and easy solution in Dreamweaver.

DWcourse
06-24-2009, 10:37 PM
I can totally understand and I started in design view (insert > table) like everyone I think. All I can see now is the amount of time I wasted doing it wrong as I looked for a quick and easy solution in Dreamweaver.

The secret is to always keep pushing beyond your comfort level (within or outside of Dreamweaver). But considering we're working in a field that didn't exist when I went to school (think Fortran and punch cards - seriously) that's not surprising.

Corrosive
06-25-2009, 07:27 AM
The secret is to always keep pushing beyond your comfort level (within or outside of Dreamweaver). But considering we're working in a field that didn't exist when I went to school (think Fortran and punch cards - seriously) that's not surprising.

Here is my problem with Dreamweaver...

DW says it offers a 'point and click' solution to website building. WYSIWYG essentially but, as we all know and all the noobs on here will testify...the reality is a little less impressive than that. There is no 'point and click' solution to web building. It just doesn't work like that!

Take Spry for instance. There is a whole board on here of people who have had really frustrating issues with Spry. Cross-browser mainly! Yet this is DWs 'point and click' solution for menu building when we all know that CSS based menus are lightweight and easier to get right across the board. If you want some fancy tricks then JQuery or moo tools can provide all of that. So, new users think 'I need a menu' they look at 'how to create a menu' in the manual and get all this Spry rubbish. 'Point and click' yes but no way on earth the right way to go about creating your menu!

Adobe keep adding new functions like Spry with each new release to justify a $400 price tag when actually none of it is needed.

The thread starter wanted to know if he should splash out that $400 on CS4. I considered CS4 when it was released and nearly paid the money. I would have been livid when I finally discovered was that all I was using it for was code view! I bought MX2004 off a mate for 15 and that is all I (or anyone) needs to build a website.

DW should be quarter of the price and honest with people. Don't say 'you can drag your website into place with APdivs or tables' say 'we will teach you the right way to build a website but it will take you six months to get it right'. The amount of people who have a table based design up in 3 hours and then come here asking why it doesn't look right in Safari is actually frightening.

Basically DW has a fundamental issue. You need to know what you are doing to use DW correctly...If you know what you are doing then you don't need DW. Therefore, rendering itself completely useless as a piece of software.

There, that's better. Rant over :wink:

DWcourse
06-25-2009, 03:30 PM
I hesitate to get into this discussion here, since no one's mind ever seems to change but

DW says it offers a 'point and click' solution to website building. WYSIWYG essentially but, as we all know and all the noobs on here will testify...the reality is a little less impressive than that. There is no 'point and click' solution to web building. It just doesn't work like that!

I don't think that's how it's marketed by Adobe but certainly a lot of folks have that impression and are disappointed as most people looking for an easy solution to anything often are.

Take Spry for instance. There is a whole board on here of people who have had really frustrating issues with Spry. Cross-browser mainly! Yet this is DWs 'point and click' solution for menu building when we all know that CSS based menus are lightweight and easier to get right across the board. If you want some fancy tricks then JQuery or moo tools can provide all of that. So, new users think 'I need a menu' they look at 'how to create a menu' in the manual and get all this Spry rubbish. 'Point and click' yes but no way on earth the right way to go about creating your menu!

I find Spry Menus well documented and easy to use and they work across all browsers (including IE6). Folks get in trouble by making changes without bothering to understand what they're doing (in spite of some very thorough commenting in the CSS file). Of course making changes without knowing what you're doing will screw up moo, jQuery and anything else. I've written a couple tutorials that beginners have been able to use to customize Spry menus quite sucessfully.

But to address a larger issue, part of the point of Dreamweaver is that it provides a pretty substantial tool box in one, well supported program. Can you go out and get a code editor, an ftp program, assemble a library of jQuery scripts, find a validation tool, etc., etc. and do MOST of what Dreamweaver does? Of course, but that's a daunting task for a noobie (and a lot of other folks). And finding training and support for all those programs isn't going to be easy either.

Adobe keep adding new functions like Spry with each new release to justify a $400 price tag when actually none of it is needed.

And Adobe has added a lot of other functions that justify the price in my mind. Better CSS support, Live View (not perfect but, with Live Code pretty awesome), AIR authoring, code navigator, extended code hinting (including for jQuery), integration with Adobe Suite (including "live" Photoshop objects) and more. I griped about the upgrade price but it was worth it to me.

In your mind all you need is an inexpensive code editor and that's what you got. Some people want more. In a few years when your buddy is willing to sell you his copy of CS4 for a few pounds, buy it. You might be surprised by what you missed (if you bother to really examine the program).

The thread starter wanted to know if he should splash out that $400 on CS4. I considered CS4 when it was released and nearly paid the money. I would have been livid when I finally discovered was that all I was using it for was code view! I bought MX2004 off a mate for 15 and that is all I (or anyone) needs to build a website.

And, if you're happy with your decision, that's fantastic!

But why even spend that money? After all there are plenty of free text editors and ftp programs and that's all I (or anyone) REALLY need to build a website. Dreamweaver is a tool I'm willing to pay for. I'd rather use a power saw than a hand saw if it improves my productivity and I can maintain or raise my standards using it.

DW should be quarter of the price and honest with people. Don't say 'you can drag your website into place with APdivs or tables' say 'we will teach you the right way to build a website but it will take you six months to get it right'. The amount of people who have a table based design up in 3 hours and then come here asking why it doesn't look right in Safari is actually frightening.

Take the price up with Adobe. Apparently they know more about making money than either of us. And your comment about AP Divs and tables may be true but you'll see a lot of stupid noobie questions on forums devoted to any topic (I helped run an SEO and they had noobie questions too!).

And, FYI, support for designing with tables and AP divs have been removed in CS4. It's still possible but people can still hand-code tables as well.

Basically DW has a fundamental issue. You need to know what you are doing to use DW correctly...If you know what you are doing then you don't need DW. Therefore, rendering itself completely useless as a piece of software.

Just because YOU find something non-useful, you shouldn't assume that your experience applies to everyone.

I don't NEED Dreamweaver, I CHOOSE to use it because I find it a valuable tool. I CHOOSE to learn the program (as well as the underlying web technologies) because that makes me better and more efficient at what I do.

My bottom line: If someone new to the web was wondering about buying Dreamweaver, I'd ask about their goals and, if they were serious about learning to design for the web, I'd recommend Dreamweaver as a tool they could start with and one that they can continue to use as they gain knowledge and proficiency.

OK that's the end of my rant too!:mrgreen:

Corrosive
06-25-2009, 04:27 PM
I hesitate to get into this discussion here, since no one's mind ever seems to change but

Definition of forum...

forum (frm, fr-)
n. pl. forums also fora (fr, fr)
1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c. A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

If we don't have debates about stuff like this then we may as well be a help desk! Please don't shy away from voicing your opinions just because you won't change my mind. It is good to exchange opinions.

rico1931
06-25-2009, 05:35 PM
good rants... both make good points... I just graduated from college in Informatics and they taught use more about gui and how to develop them. My prof hated DW but used it just because it was an easy tool to help him show us what the hell is going on without him hand coding everything.. He just did a drag and drop and explained it.. But when I went to his office to try to understand stuff he would open up my files in notepad ++!!! I like DW but def use the Code view 10x more then Design. I just use Design to find my place click on it switch to code view and its highlighted lol so i'm not scrolling through 500 lines of code to try to find a specific field.


But both good rants I like it

DWcourse
06-25-2009, 06:40 PM
I just use split view and a big screen. With the related files bar in CS4, it's even better. To be honest I'm not even aware of working in code versus using design view and Dreamweaver "shortcuts." I just use what's most convenient for what I'm doing.