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Corrosive
08-11-2008, 06:14 PM
...well two actually.

1. Do your keywords have to match words in the text of your page? I.e. if I have the same keywords in the head tags throughout the site, regardless of what's on the page, will that be OK for SEO?

2. I understand about styling specific tags, h1, h2, h3 etc. to emphasise important phrases or words but can you only use them once each? I.e not like a 'class' but more like an ID?

Thanks

domedia
08-12-2008, 12:04 AM
1. Do your keywords have to match words in the text of your page? I.e. if I have the same keywords in the head tags throughout the site, regardless of what's on the page, will that be OK for SEO?
Short answer is that modern search engines completely ignore (for years) your meta keywords :)

2. I understand about styling specific tags, h1, h2, h3 etc. to emphasise important phrases or words but can you only use them once each? I.e not like a 'class' but more like an ID?

You can use them multiple times. The headers are part of structuring your document. Think of it like a word document and try to make your headers part of a sound structure. They won't let you rank higher, but will let you rank better, if that makes sense :)

I usually reserve the H1 as the title of the document (almost like the title tag), and let sub-headers be h2, and then use h3 if there's another level of information in the document.

edbr
08-12-2008, 01:07 AM
description is more important. this online 'tester' is ok, but just asa guide its not the law so to speak

http://www.freewebsubmission.com/web-page-analyzer.html

Corrosive
08-12-2008, 06:50 AM
OK, cheers guys. So I don't need to play too much with meta tag for keywords, pretty much redundant, but meta tag description is important.

Cool, I'll try that validation page as well, thanks Ed.

davidj
08-12-2008, 07:51 AM
I usually reserve the H1 as the title of the document (almost like the title tag), and let sub-headers be h2, and then use h3 if there's another level of information in the document.

so you still use H tags.

So do you define what the H tag will look like using CSS?

I have never used them as every text block i just wrapped in a <span and then styled that either by a CLASS or ID.

I am moving into web design soon so i am trying to get a primer on this

edbr
08-12-2008, 07:56 AM
search engines rank info in h tags H1 being more important than h2 etc
and yes using css.
Ia m not sure re relevance the effect of using H1 in classes so that you could have numerous H1 tags on a page though

davidj
08-12-2008, 08:00 AM
by styling an H1 using a class you could have multiple H1 stylings each doing their own thing therefore does the H1 Tag takes on the role of a <span tag at this stage. Using this senario you are using an H1 or H tag as just a wrapper and it looses its purpose

edbr
08-12-2008, 08:05 AM
yesactualy I always use h1 tags once, i had read that is important re search engines, which to me is the purpose of using it

Corrosive
08-12-2008, 08:06 AM
I understand it that H tag replaces the span class or ID and they can be styled using CSS. I guess you'd only style font and block.

I have tried to keep my text punchy and 'to the point' so do I really need to style H tags? Are they not for picking the key bits out of the waffle?

edbr
08-12-2008, 08:13 AM
Are they not for picking the key bits out of the waffle?
they are header tags so i would say they should be subject relevant to what the page is about

Corrosive
08-12-2008, 08:19 AM
they are header tags so i would say they should be subject relevant to what the page is about

Hmmm. Will have to have a think about this. I'm currently making my descriptions relevant to page content, rather than generic, so I'll keep on with that. Of course the frustrating bit is you have to wait a while before you know if it has worked. Patience is a virtue 'they' say.

Corrosive
08-12-2008, 09:53 AM
Hmmm. Will have to have a think about this. I'm currently making my descriptions relevant to page content, rather than generic, so I'll keep on with that. Of course the frustrating bit is you have to wait a while before you know if it has worked. Patience is a virtue 'they' say.

OK, further to this. Is there a way to ensure Google show my index page first in rankings so that people don't go in on random pages?

edbr
08-12-2008, 09:58 AM
I think, best way would be tou get back links to your index page, so making it more popular in googles eyes

Corrosive
08-12-2008, 10:05 AM
I think, best way would be tou get back links to your index page, so making it more popular in googles eyes

OK Ed. Would that count for straight links i.e. www.johntuckeronline.com (http://www.johntuckeronline.com) rather than www.johntuckeronline.com/index.htm (http://www.johntuckeronline.com/index.htm) ? Or would it have to reference the index page directly?

You know what Ed. Designing is great fun but the rest is a ball ache.

edbr
08-12-2008, 10:11 AM
Oh yeah, time for one of davidj's pie charts.
both links are fine, get your self relevant links higher ranking the better

domedia
08-12-2008, 05:05 PM
OK, further to this. Is there a way to ensure Google show my index page first in rankings so that people don't go in on random pages? If your homepage is more relevant to the search being done, it will (should) show up first. If they seek specific information that might on a specific page, the SE's try to rank that page higher. So it's relative to the search being done. You don't want your homepage to always come up, because it might not be the document the user is searching for.

domedia
08-12-2008, 05:07 PM
OK Ed. Would that count for straight links i.e. www.johntuckeronline.com (http://www.johntuckeronline.com) rather than www.johntuckeronline.com/index.htm (http://www.johntuckeronline.com/index.htm) ? Or would it have to reference the index page directly?
You should not link to index.html at all as long as it's the default page being shown when they just go to www.johntuckeronline.com/

If I remember right, you might log into your Google webmaster area and tell them which is the one that should be used.

domedia
08-12-2008, 05:22 PM
About the use of H1 vs divs and spans.

Most of the HTML tags have the ability to give semantical meaning.
<h1> = Top header
<h2> = subheader
How the headers come in order = helps outline the structure of the document
strong and em = emphasis
address = contact information
q = quote

etc

then there are some boxes with no semantical meaning, Div's and spans. One is a block element the other one an inline element.

Div's and spans are not in place for H1, or vice versa, they're different, one having semantical value the other one not.

ALWAYS use the right semantical tag if you can :)
A div wrapper is just a hook for styles, the document as such does not need it, we just add it for making it possible to apply CSS to it.

Using a div (or span) for everything is not right, and is called Divitis :)

Corrosive
08-13-2008, 06:12 AM
You should not link to index.html at all as long as it's the default page being shown when they just go to www.johntuckeronline.com/ (http://www.johntuckeronline.com/)

If I remember right, you might log into your Google webmaster area and tell them which is the one that should be used.

Great, that's what I have done. Good memory skills Domedia!

Corrosive
08-13-2008, 06:21 AM
About the use of H1 vs divs and spans.

Most of the HTML tags have the ability to give semantical meaning.
<h1> = Top header
<h2> = subheader
How the headers come in order = helps outline the structure of the document
strong and em = emphasis
address = contact information
q = quote

etc

then there are some boxes with no semantical meaning, Div's and spans. One is a block element the other one an inline element.

Div's and spans are not in place for H1, or vice versa, they're different, one having semantical value the other one not.

ALWAYS use the right semantical tag if you can :)
A div wrapper is just a hook for styles, the document as such does not need it, we just add it for making it possible to apply CSS to it.

Using a div (or span) for everything is not right, and is called Divitis :)

Thanks Domedia.

OK, to wrap this up then...

I tend to style text by adding CSS styles to the Div the text sits in itself. What I should be doing is leaving the font stuff blank in the ID or class styles and then styling my text with specific h1, h2 tags etc. depending on level of importance of the text.

So, in practice, if I have three paragraphs on a page and, for arguments sake, I want the first paragraph to be in Arial, 12px and bold then I style h1 as that and wrap the text in this tag. The rest of the text is in Arial 10px and normal weight so h2 could be styled like this and applied to each subsequent paragraph.

I have 'Divitis' and will need to start curing myself!

domedia
08-13-2008, 12:46 PM
I tend to style text by adding CSS styles to the Div the text sits in itself. What I should be doing is leaving the font stuff blank in the ID or class styles and then styling my text with specific h1, h2 tags etc. depending on level of importance of the text. Correct. For regular text use P.

So, in practice, if I have three paragraphs on a page and, for arguments sake, I want the first paragraph to be in Arial, 12px and bold then I style h1 as that and wrap the text in this tag. The rest of the text is in Arial 10px and normal weight so h2 could be styled like this and applied to each subsequent paragraph.
Here's what I do:
1. I declare the document as html4.01 strict.
2. I set the font properties in CSS to the body tag. It will be inherited throughout the document.
3. then I set the css sizes for h1, h2 etc.
4. Seperate style class for the intro text you want different .ingress

The text will be marked up something like this:
<h1>Document title</h1>
<p class="ingress">paragraph</p>
<h2>header</h2>
<p>paragraph</p>
<p>paragraph</p>
<h2>header</h2>
<p>paragraph</p>
<p>paragraph</p>
etc.
I have 'Divitis' and will need to start curing myself! Call me Doctor Ove ;-)

davidj
08-13-2008, 12:49 PM
i have...

attractivetotheladiesitis!

thats its Latin name

commonly known as

handsome bastard fever

domedia
08-13-2008, 12:56 PM
i have...

attractivetotheladiesitis!

thats its Latin name

commonly known as

handsome bastard fever

Weird, your condition would be called 'Schizophrenia' in other countries..

Corrosive
08-13-2008, 01:23 PM
Correct. For regular text use P.


Here's what I do:
1. I declare the document as html4.01 strict.
2. I set the font properties in CSS to the body tag. It will be inherited throughout the document.
3. then I set the css sizes for h1, h2 etc.
4. Seperate style class for the intro text you want different .ingress

The text will be marked up something like this:
<h1>Document title</h1>
<p class="ingress">paragraph</p>
<h2>header</h2>
<p>paragraph</p>
<p>paragraph</p>
<h2>header</h2>
<p>paragraph</p>
<p>paragraph</p>
etc.
Call me Doctor Ove ;-)

Thanks Doc. That makes a lot more sense now.

Corrosive
08-13-2008, 01:26 PM
Weird, your condition would be called 'Schizophrenia' in other countries..

Or DJ is delusional. One or the other :wink:

domedia
08-13-2008, 01:28 PM
I was going to say so too, but the 'delusional disorder' does not include any hallucinations. ;-)

Cor: check your pm inbox

davidj
08-13-2008, 02:13 PM
go and boil ya heeds