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buchcreator
07-05-2008, 08:22 AM
I am fairly new to using dreamweaver- I currently work on MX and was previously designing with tables. It was suggested to me recently to use CSS and layers for page since it provides you with more design options. On some other forums I have had conflicting opinions. Some people tell me to just use tables since not all browsers support CSS nor do they properly display layers. Others have told me just to use CSS.
Since I think you guys seem to have the best suggestions- would you happen to know any specific tutorials on how to use layers and CSS to design the page layout. I understand the basics of CSS I just dont know yet how to incorporate layers with it. (or should I be using tables with the CSS). ;)

Corrosive
07-05-2008, 08:58 AM
I am fairly new to using dreamweaver- I currently work on MX and was previously designing with tables. It was suggested to me recently to use CSS and layers for page since it provides you with more design options. On some other forums I have had conflicting opinions. Some people tell me to just use tables since not all browsers support CSS nor do they properly display layers. Others have told me just to use CSS.
Since I think you guys seem to have the best suggestions- would you happen to know any specific tutorials on how to use layers and CSS to design the page layout. I understand the basics of CSS I just dont know yet how to incorporate layers with it. (or should I be using tables with the CSS). ;)


Hi Buchcreator

You won't get conflicting opinions here. Tables are for data, CSS and Divs/Layers are for design. That's it, no argument. The people who tell you to use tables probably can't get to grips with CSS. Although very old browsers may not support CSS, all modern ones do and you want to look to the future rather than accomodating the past. You might get some 'bugs' you need to fix with certain browsers but you will be so much better off in the long run learning CSS.

Try some of the tutorials on this site and also here...

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/dreamweaver/css.html

You can always ask questions about CSS here and we'll be happy to help.

Good luck :)

davidj
07-05-2008, 10:54 AM
probably can't get to grips with CSS.

err this sounds like me

domedia
07-05-2008, 03:36 PM
You might get some 'bugs' you need to fix with certain browsers but you will be so much better off in the long run learning CSS. And remember using tables for layout certainly has it's bugs as well..

buchcreator
07-05-2008, 06:31 PM
Thanks corrosive- you're not as scary as your picture shows after all!

Ariel
07-05-2008, 06:44 PM
buchcreator, I am fairly new at all of this also, and I'm in the process of changing my site over from layers and tables to html styled using only CSS. It is a long journey, but seems to be fun (to me).

Tables appear to be something that was used in the past. Then came layers, which to an artist and Photoshop-er seemed like a dream come true! However with layers comes a term called absolute positioning. It breeds many problems, although I admit to loving layers.

Right now, I am reading Mastering CSS, by Stephanie Sullivan and Greg Rewis. It is a very good book and explains many things clearly. Also, Lynda.com has great videos about learning to style html.

Good luck and have lots of fun! :)

Ricky55
07-05-2008, 08:36 PM
There is no conflict, ask anyone who knows what they are talking about in the industry and they will all tell you the same thing.

Semantic HTML styled with CSS is the only way to go.

buchcreator
07-05-2008, 09:21 PM
Good suggestions!- So how does that work exactly- do you just lay the page out with the layers like you do with the tables and freely position the elements anywhere you want on the page and then apply CSS to each layers content...:lol:

Corrosive
07-05-2008, 11:54 PM
Thanks corrosive- you're not as scary as your picture shows after all!

I'm not scary :twisted: but everyone needs an avatar!

Corrosive
07-05-2008, 11:58 PM
Good suggestions!- So how does that work exactly- do you just lay the page out with the layers like you do with the tables and freely position the elements anywhere you want on the page and then apply CSS to each layers content...:lol:

You need to do some reading mate. Look at the link I put in my first post and use the resources here.

Do you have a design mocked up in photoshop or a web design you have seen that you like? Because then we can give you some guidance.

Ricky55
07-06-2008, 04:15 PM
Don't use layers either.

neonfluxx
07-07-2008, 04:37 AM
Divs with proper css is the way to go.

buchcreator
07-13-2008, 11:38 PM
Well, I'm Back- I read through several tutorials on the adobe link provided by corrosive and found them to be very helpful. One of the featured articles suggested downloading an existing open source template created using CSS and basically dissecting it and playing around with different dimensions in order to get used to how these concepts work. I thought that was an excellent idea so I went to open source web design.org (http://www.oswd.org)
I downloaded two CSS templates from this website (Page 2- "nightshots" and page 47- Nautica01 if you're interested in checking out the inventory). The package came with the images and the code for the style etc..
They opened in DW MX just fine however, I cant get any of the elements to show up in design view. I created a folder in my existing defined sight called "CSS files" and linked a page to it (I was trying to use it as an external style sheet). I was wondering if there is any way to get the complete picture in design view just so I can see what changes I have made. (This may seem a little unorthodox but experimenting always works for me.) Sorry for all the trouble- I am brand new to CSS!
Thanks Again for the suggestions!

Corrosive
07-14-2008, 07:17 AM
Well, I'm Back- I read through several tutorials on the adobe link provided by corrosive and found them to be very helpful. One of the featured articles suggested downloading an existing open source template created using CSS and basically dissecting it and playing around with different dimensions in order to get used to how these concepts work. I thought that was an excellent idea so I went to open source web design.org (http://www.oswd.org)
I downloaded two CSS templates from this website (Page 2- "nightshots" and page 47- Nautica01 if you're interested in checking out the inventory). The package came with the images and the code for the style etc..
They opened in DW MX just fine however, I cant get any of the elements to show up in design view. I created a folder in my existing defined sight called "CSS files" and linked a page to it (I was trying to use it as an external style sheet). I was wondering if there is any way to get the complete picture in design view just so I can see what changes I have made. (This may seem a little unorthodox but experimenting always works for me.) Sorry for all the trouble- I am brand new to CSS!
Thanks Again for the suggestions!

OK, you'll probably find that this is the way 95% of us learnt CSS (I know I did). Once you have your head round the concept you could try building something from scratch to really develop your skills/understanding.

As for the elements displaying in design view, if the paths to your folders are correct then they will show up. There must be something in the wrong place! Make sure your site structure/map is correct in the site view (bottom right hand panel).

Cheers

buchcreator
07-18-2008, 02:58 AM
Thanks ariel- if you dont mind me asking which version of dreamweaver are you using? Would it happen to be MX?

Ariel
07-22-2008, 06:47 PM
Thanks ariel- if you dont mind me asking which version of dreamweaver are you using? Would it happen to be MX?
Hi buchcreator, I am using CS3. It is different from MX and 8 but I like it a lot. However I must admit that I like to simply work in code most of the time, and just check design mode once in a while. It is also fun to be in design mode, make style changes using the CSS panel, and actually see things move around. I know, I'm easily amused. :)

Adam_G
07-23-2008, 03:40 PM
buchcreator, I was in a similar boat to you a few weeks ago. The worst thing is that you know you need to ask a question, but you don't know how the hell to word it! That's what's so good about this forum, there are people who understand muppets like me!

I bought a book called The Missing Manual for MX2004 (ISBN 0-596-00631-4) which is brilliant. You download files that help you complete the tutorials and it gives you a bit of a grounding in HTML, tables, rollovers etc before unleashing CSS.

I found it perfect because I'm coming into web design from a printed media design background and really didn't have a clue about the most basic fundamentals of web design.

I've done half a dozen or so sites so far, nothing complicated but I'm adding more and more features each time as I learn them.

The most important thing I've learned so far is that complicated features are no substitute for good design, and although techies might appreciate complex scripting, unless it serves a specific purpose that's difficult to achieve any other way, the end user or client won't appreciate it.

I know it's a cliché, but Keep It Simple, Stupid.