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davidj
04-28-2006, 02:30 PM
In the future forums like this will be a little different

imagine browsing this forum in a few years and the posts, threads, questions, answers just drop in as your reading a bit like a chat app with no submit needed or any page requests.

brilliant i hear you all say

Just imagine, for the purposes of an example, that you buy a bling product then decide you want to return it. You contact the vendor with your reason via a form. Your first attempt is too close to the truth coz you want the money so you can go to the pub. You decide to lie a little. You remove the Pub excuse and replace it with your dog has died and need the money to by a plot in a pet cemetery. This is too late as evey key stroke or every onChange event or every 3 seconds sends the data to the vender without submitting the form. He knows by now that you want to go on the drink with the refund he is now NOT going to give you.

well that time is here people with XMLHttpRequest and AJAX

live in fear people!

domedia
04-28-2006, 04:04 PM
I've seen some apps pretty close to that already :) http://www.yackpack.com/ very very cool. yackpack is not forum software, but falls between IM/newsgroups/irc/forum..
demo: http://www.yackpack.com/how2use/index.html

every 3 seonds onchange sounds like overkill.. chat system already has this figured out.. don't frighten people ;)

davidj, you know I'm not a programmer, but isn't XMLHttpRequest = AJAX?

davidj
04-29-2006, 10:33 AM
every 3 seonds onchange sounds like overkill.. chat system already has this figured out.. don't frighten people

this was an example. If i was a developer then i may choose to incorporate a 1 second server request. Its up to me the developer how and when i want the database to retain info

davidj, you know I'm not a programmer, but isn't XMLHttpRequest = AJAX?

XMLHttpRequest is an object

AJAX = javascript + xml or xhtml

dthomsen8
05-02-2006, 09:16 PM
In the future forums like this will be a little different

imagine browsing this forum in a few years and the posts, threads, questions, answers just drop in as your reading a bit like a chat app with no submit needed or any page requests.

brilliant i hear you all say

Just imagine, for the purposes of an example, that you buy a bling product then decide you want to return it. You contact the vendor with your reason via a form. Your first attempt is too close to the truth coz you want the money so you can go to the pub. You decide to lie a little. You remove the Pub excuse and replace it with your dog has died and need the money to by a plot in a pet cemetery. This is too late as evey key stroke or every onChange event or every 3 seconds sends the data to the vender without submitting the form. He knows by now that you want to go on the drink with the refund he is now NOT going to give you.

well that time is here people with XMLHttpRequest and AJAX

live in fear people!

Many times in the past there have been predictions that in the future the computer programmers and analysts, the web designers and database experts, and whoever else in the data processing or information technology industry needs, would be replaced by the end users, who could use the software themselves, and get it right, quickly and easily, and much cheaper than all those "experts" getting high salaries.

My prediction: It will never happen, it can't happen, experts will always be needed.

Creative Insanity
05-03-2006, 10:57 AM
I say it is possible.
Just look at dreamweaver and PS for a start..
Someone with an ounce of common sence and the ability to stick with something can put out rather a nice dynamic driven site that is fast effective and very nice looking. Does that not put out of a job a design person and a coder? Yip.

Another.. does not programs like getdataback take business away from and IT company because the user can now retrieve his or her own lost files on their own.

Do I need go on?

davidj
05-03-2006, 12:54 PM
i think your wrong.

you can generate drag and drop code using apps like DW but dont you then become an expert in DW

even Drag and Drop ninjas require help as this forum qualifies that argument so by asking a question that isnt answered by an extension or a ready made script is breaking the any-one-can-build-an-application-without-any-coding-knowledge rule

give a dreamweaver virgin dreamweaver and ask him to build an application without any help then thats when you have your holy grail of web app creation tools

Once a person does a reasonable job of coding and designing then does that not make him a design person and a coder?

domedia
05-03-2006, 02:16 PM
Being a DW guru does not mean you're making good websites either. For a while I had the highest test score (worldwide) for DW on Brainbench, I knew the current DW version in and out, but it didn't mean I knew much about making good websites. And actually I didn't :). It took a book on Information Architecture to open my eyes. Just because you have tools doesn't mean you know how to use them. Anyone can get the tools.

Creative Insanity
05-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Which is why I mentioned an ounce of common sence and someone that knows how to press F1.
I actually started with DW years ago and knew squat about it. But I did know where F1 was and I did know how to read and play with certain things. Once you get to know how DW structures things (badly or not) a complete novice, with a little F1 reading CAN put a nice site together, I have for one and I know of others that have also.
A coder in my books is someone that can sit down and write a complete application by hand with a program like UltraEdit or such like. A DW expert is just that.. and they can both get the same results just that the dw user would get there faster because he would only need to change a script a little to get what they wanted where a coder would have to work out the complete script.

davidj
05-04-2006, 07:48 AM
the dw user would get there faster because he would only need to change a script a little to get what they wanted where a coder would have to work out the complete script.

to change a script you need to understand a script. if you dont understand it then the chances are your going to break it.

The point of the thread ...
Many times in the past there have been predictions that in the future the computer programmers and analysts, the web designers and database experts, and whoever else in the data processing or information technology industry needs, would be replaced by the end users, who could use the software themselves, and get it right, quickly and easily

if your following the post it mentions...
would be replaced by the end users, who could use the software themselves, and get it right, quickly and easily

an "end user" who is going to put us out of a job in this senario cant mod a script coz that makes him one of us and also asumes he understands what hes doing.

A coder would build a more robust, scalable, client happy application

imagine a a drag-n-dropper getting a call from a angry client that an error is appearing on the Application and he is loosing money or the client asking for a small mod which will send the user to different places of the App depending on who he is when he logs on.

the first thing the a drag-n-dropper will do is look for an extension the next thing is to PM someone on here

I think we are safe at the moment and will be for a while yet